Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nick Gkionis

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete as there is no proof that he has played in a fully professional league, thus failing WP:ATHLETE. пﮟოьεԻ 57 08:58, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Nick Gkionis

Nick Gkionis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Player does not sufficiently satisfy WP:ATHLETE in that they have not played a game for a fully professional league, noting that soccer is a professional sport. In addition, player does not sufficiently satisfy the notability criteria guidelines as outlined by WP:FOOTY in that they do not play for a professional team, have played in a competitive fixture, or have senior international caps/Olympics caps. Removed prod due to perceived notability of Cyprus 2nd Division or Belgian 4th Division. GauchoDude (talk) 04:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GauchoDude (talk) 04:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• Delete neither Cyprus 2nd division nor Belgian 4th division are fully professional, so the subject is not notable. --Angelo (talk) 08:39, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• Delete as Non-notable, has not played in a competitive game between two professional sides. Brilliantine (talk) 04:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Punkmorten (talk) 07:42, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. User has in no way shown that 2. Cyprus is not fully professional, and if as user Brilliantine says one requirement is "has not played in a competitive game between two professional sides," this is absolutely not the case as any match between Gkionis' former club MEAP Nisou and over half of the clubs from 2. Cyprus last year were fully professional matches. Deletion has already been removed from the page once and I feel that the person re-adding such nomination simply has a vendetta due to some personal unnecessary high standards, especially give that he can not definitively prove that 2. Cyprus is in fact not fully professional. NJDevils1087 NJDevils1087 (talk) 13:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Do not delete Nick Gkionis's site because the clubs in the Cypriot 2nd division are professional.

Cypriot football league system article clearly states that they are only semi-professional. This is not the same as fully professional. Brilliantine (talk) 13:46, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

So noted with no proof whatsoever in that article, Brilliantine. There is no link or source to definitively state that clubs in the Second Division are in fact semi-professional. As Nick was a former player with one of the 2. Cyprus clubs, I suggest we remove the deletion block for now and let him get valid information from sources directly involved with the league, rather than go by an unsourced Wiki entry. I also feel that any club that can reasonably expect to reach the highest tier of club football in a country is for all intents and purposes fully professional, but that is not a source, just an opinion. NJDevils1087 (talk) 15:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. Well-written, well-referenced article. All-American. Claims of notablity. Nfitz (talk) 16:21, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, player fails notability at WP:ATHLETE having never played fully-professional. I'd hardly say three sources is well-referenced. Being all-American doesn't confer notability either. --Jimbo^[online] 18:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Again, Jimbo, this is unproven. The reference to semi-professional comes from Wikipedia article Cypriot football league system, which is itself 100% unsourced and clearly not able to be validated. I continue to recommend that we let Nick talk to league contacts for confirmation of this before any deletion occurs. NJDevils1087 (talk) 18:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Delete and re-create once Gkionis plays in a fully professional league. Since MEAP Nisou may be a pro club competing in a league with some semi-pro clubs, he could have in theory played in a cup match against a pro club and passed WP:ATHLETE. However, rsssf.com has MEAP losing in the first round of the 2007-08 Cup to an amateur club. Jogurney (talk) 19:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If one match against a fully pro club is considered passing WP:ATHLETE, the matches MEAP contested against relegated Division A/Marfin Laiki League (1. Cyprus) clubs, all of which are fully-professional as per the sourced Cypriot First Division. In addition, WP:ATHLETE lists criterion as "an athlete that has participated in the highest levels of amateur sports. This, in the United States, should include both the NCAA and PDL for soccer. NJDevils1087 (talk) 14:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Both Clubs have to be fully pro. In any case, only around half of the teams in the First division are fully pro (I know, I can't source this at the moment - sadly I only understand ancient Greek rather than modern. 'The highest level of amateur sports' I take to mean to relate to sports where there is either no professional setup in that country, or where the amateur and professional sports are so different that they are viewed almost as different sports - for example Amateur Boxing. I think this is supported by the wording "highest levels of amateur sports" - your interpretation of this would be suggested if it read "highest amateur levels of sports". Brilliantine (talk) 16:10, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Comment - The highest level of amateur soccer would be the U-23's, otherwise known as the Olympics. Since he has not participated in such, the NCAA and PDL is non-notable. No other NCAA soccer athlete or PDL athlete have articles on wikipedia due solely to the fact that they've played in those leagues. GauchoDude (talk) 08:13, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.